[Shaolin]

guys !!!! some Common sense please
farq kia parta hai makes no difference what so ever !!!!
pakistan islam kay naam par bana ya history ka blunder tha, jo bhe tha it was over 60 LONG years ago , ab ban gaya hai ab is kay lia kuch karna just play your part kuch bhe agar kuch nahe kar saktay to at least apne existance par dhabba mat lagao , I am pakistani regardless where am born or bread , regardless am punjabi or baloch , shia or sunni , I am pakistani agar pura pakistan ghalat hai to is say bhe koi farq nahe parta am still pakistani .. As they say we need to own it ...

 

[!~*SOoLi]

Originally Posted by Shaolin

guys !!!! some Common sense please
farq kia parta hai makes no difference what so ever !!!!
pakistan islam kay naam par bana ya history ka blunder tha, jo bhe tha it was over 60 LONG years ago , ab ban gaya hai ab is kay lia kuch karna just play your part kuch bhe agar kuch nahe kar saktay to at least apne existance par dhabba mat lagao , I am pakistani regardless where am born or bread , regardless am punjabi or baloch , shia or sunni , I am pakistani agar pura pakistan ghalat hai to is say bhe koi farq nahe parta am still pakistani .. As they say we need to own it ...

Indvidually Har Acha Banda Apna Part Play Karta Rehta Hay Aur Ye Achay Banday Ki Sift Hoti Hi Hay, Aik Quotation Hay,..

حب الوطن من الایمان
Patriotism is part of "Imaan"

Kuch Logo'n Ka Kehna Hay Ye Hadis Hay, Aur Kuch Ka Kehna Hay Ye Humaray Buzurgo'n Ka Qaul Hay, Baherhal Ye Alag Bahes Hay Haan Baat Authentic Zaroor Hay ..


Pakistan Asal Main 2 Dramatic Groups K Darmyan Phansa Howa Hay Extream Secular & Mullaism Extreamists, Yaha'n Par Theek Say Islam Ko Implement Kiya Jaye To Pakistan Ki each & every Problems Resolve Hojayen.. Secular Hay Ya Islamic Country Ye Bahes Is Liye Ki Jati Hay Kion K Law n Orders according to Islamic Shariya Implement Kiye Jaye'n, Jokay Pakistan Ka Basic Right Hay.. Kionkay Wo Islam K Naam Par Bana

 

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Chal Fiqr Noo Goli Maar Yaar Hain Din Jindri Day Chaar!

[beyond_vision]

Hmmm Indeed a very important issue which u've brought up Sooli, (y)
Before I may say anything on this issue, would just respond that knowing abt ur past and learning frm it is very important in order to do progress and bring some change in future. Therefore, it is of utmost importance to know about one's national identity as most of the social, economic, cultural and ethical development of any country depends on its national identity. This was to people who think that it makes no difference.

Now coming on this very debate which I would classify as the "Identity Crisis" of Pakistan, all of you have brought up some really good points and I do agree to most extent of all of your points. However, there is no wrong in being critical while analyzing the history and about believeing abt different versions of history. There is a famous saying that "history is alwayz written frm the point of view of the victorious people" and if we remark in syllabuses also, often one may find some biases in favour of that particular country.

Personally I believe that it can be great if we can blend these 2 idealogies together in a specific Pakistani context. The problem has been alwayz to consider these 2 idealogies as being completly dichatomous to each other which can perhaps be the case in western cases but not in Pakistan due to its blend of ethnic, religious, linguistic and cultural communities. In my personal view, perhaps that was what Jinnah also meant when using the words of "secularism". He did not mean it the western secularism in any sense but a more blended secularism of taking into full considertion of Islamic values and at the same time respecting all the rights of minorities also.

Now on the question of whether it was a "historic blunder" or a "pre-planned idea of a purely fundamentalist Islamic state", There can be argument on it. If we look back into the history and the documents from academic sources, one thing gets clear that the use of "Islamic identity" or the solgan of Islam was used in pre-independent era in order to get the wide support of all Muslims across India. Before religion, others symbols like language were also used but they were not that succesful, therefore the symbol of "muslim identity", and "muslim homeland" became that wide umbrella under which all Muslims were united. But, it was a temporary identity, which worked in the process of nation building and in the Independence movement but In my opinion, it was never to be the overarching Identity forever and history proved it in the case of Banglasdesh also that religion alone was not a sufficient glue to hold them together. The other identities needed also to be blendid in that like giving proper liguistic rights, having equal economic situations in which Pakistani Politicians absolutly failed and this is very cause due to which we r still facing many inter-ethnic/linguistic/sectarial problems.

Anyhow I guess its getting too long, but in short, if considered frm the idealogy of "Islamic state", then Jinnah wanted a modern Islamic state in which women wud have equal opportunities. If seen frm "Secular" point of view, then he wanted a blended secularism which wud be unique to Pakistanis and Pakistani ground realities.
Faiz ka aik sher yaad aa raha hay to wud finish it with that.

Yeh Daag daag Ujala, yeh shab gazeeda Sehar
Woh Intazar Tha Jiska, Yeh Wo Sahar Tou Nahi
Abhii Chiraag-e-sar-e-rah ko Kuchh Khabar hii Nahi
Abhii Garaani-e-shab Main kamii nahi aaii
Najaat-e-diida-o-dil kii Gharii Nah aaii
Chale Chalo ki Wo mannzil abhii nahii aaii

 

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Last edited by beyond_vision; 05-22-2012 at 05:37 AM..

[!~*SOoLi]

Originally Posted by beyond_vision

Hmmm Indeed a very important issue which u've brought up Sooli, (y)
Before I may say anything on this issue, would just respond that knowing abt ur past and learning frm it is very important in order to do progress and bring some change in future. Therefore, it is of utmost importance to know about one's national identity as most of the social, economic, cultural and ethical development of any country depends on its national identity. This was to people who think that it makes no difference.

Now coming on this very debate which I would classify as the "Identity Crisis" of Pakistan, all of you have brought up some really good points and I do agree to most extent of all of your points. However, there is no wrong in being critical while analyzing the history and about believeing abt different versions of history. There is a famous saying that "history is alwayz written frm the point of view of the victorious people" and if we remark in syllabuses also, often one may find some biases in favour of that particular country.

Personally I believe that it can be great if we can blend these 2 idealogies together in a specific Pakistani context. The problem has been alwayz to consider these 2 idealogies as being completly dichatomous to each other which can perhaps be the case in western cases but not in Pakistan due to its blend of ethnic, religious, linguistic and cultural communities. In my personal view, perhaps that was what Jinnah also meant when using the words of "secularism". He did not mean it the western secularism in any sense but a more blended secularism of taking into full considertion of Islamic values and at the same time respecting all the rights of minorities also.

Now on the question of whether it was a "historic blunder" or a "pre-planned idea of a purely fundamentalist Islamic state", There can be argument on it. If we look back into the history and the documents from academic sources, one thing gets clear that the use of "Islamic identity" or the solgan of Islam was used in pre-independent era in order to get the wide support of all Muslims across India. Before religion, others symbols like language were also used but they were not that succesful, therefore the symbol of "muslim identity", and "muslim homeland" became that wide umbrella under which all Muslims were united. But, it was a temporary identity, which worked in the process of nation building and in the Independence movement but In my opinion, it was never to be the overarching Identity forever and history proved it in the case of Banglasdesh also that religion alone was not a sufficient glue to hold them together. The other identities needed also to be blendid in that like giving proper liguistic rights, having equal economic situations in which Pakistani Politicians absolutly failed and this is very cause due to which we r still facing many inter-ethnic/linguistic/sectarial problems.

Anyhow I guess its getting too long, but in short, if considered frm the idealogy of "Islamic state", then Jinnah wanted a modern Islamic state in which women wud have equal opportunities. If seen frm "Secular" point of view, then he wanted a blended secularism which wud be unique to Pakistanis and Pakistani ground realities.
Faiz ka aik sher yaad aa raha hay to wud finish it with that.

Yeh Daag daag Ujala, yeh shab gazeeda Sehar
Woh Intazar Tha Jiska, Yeh Wo Sahar Tou Nahi
Abhii Chiraag-e-sar-e-rah ko Kuchh Khabar hii Nahi
Abhii Garaani-e-shab Main kamii nahi aaii
Najaat-e-diida-o-dil kii Gharii Nah aaii
Chale Chalo ki Wo mannzil abhii nahii aaii

Thanks for the Reply, .. Will comment on your post later, have to go..

 

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Chal Fiqr Noo Goli Maar Yaar Hain Din Jindri Day Chaar!